Freezing cold room above garage

[loraine1966]

To Marlyn1 - Hi. Received your personal message re suggestion of a good surveyor. Tried to email back but cant because I need to have 11 posts or something like that. Could you send me the details please as still getting nowhere with Stewart Milne.

Just watched a thing on youtube about spray insullation for inside the garage ceiling. Has anyone had experience? It was called "Holmes on Homes Cold Bonus Room above Garage" if anyone wants to see it.

 

[Brians]

To Marlyn1 - Hi. Received your personal message re suggestion of a good surveyor. Tried to email back but cant because I need to have 11 posts or something like that. Could you send me the details please as still getting nowhere with Stewart Milne.

Just watched a thing on youtube about spray insullation for inside the garage ceiling. Has anyone had experience? It was called "Holmes on Homes Cold Bonus Room above Garage" if anyone wants to see it.

Be good to know if anything happened on your room above the garage? We have identical issues with our Letham in Prestonpans....unihabitable in winter after the heating goes off.

We've involved NHBC...to some degree of success. Thermal imaging happens on Thursday - despite Milnes trying to weazel out of it.

Trouble is...supposing it proves our case. Will they (or NHBC) do anything about it? We're not holding our breath!

 

[loraine1966]

Freezing rooms above garage

Hi Brians

NHBC came out on one of the warmest days of the year to do thermal imaging. Did show that there was a 6 degree difference in one part of the room from another!! He also noted the window seals where not fitted correctly and were letting in draughts. There was insulation that had fallen from its veritcal position. He also thought that the location of the radiator in the recess of the dormer window was not an ideal location because it was not circulating heat around the room. The NHBC guy was good and knew his stuff. He wrote a report suggesting
1 fix insulation
2 Either move radiator or put another one in
3 Fix windows
4 Have a seperate thermostatic control for the bedroom so that it was independant from the rest of the house

Stewart Milne fixed the insulation and the window people are coming tomorrow but they have refused to do anything else because the building regulations state that he room has to reach 18 degrees but there is no mention of the speed or extent at which it loses heat when the heating is switched off by the thermostat that controls the rest of the house.

We ended up lifting our carpet and underlay. Sealing between the skirting and floorboards with mastic sealer. Placing aluminium thermal sheets (B & Q). and high quality thermal carpet underlay. We have put these sheets behind the radiator too. We also placed the aluminium sheets on the garage doors and draught excluders around garage door gaps. This appears to have improved the heat loss in the room to the point it is more habitable for our daughter but you still feel the difference. Havent yet checked the differences in temperature. Will do this once windows are fixed.

NHBC said we could get back to them if we felt during the winter that the problem was still an issue.

I would love to hear how you get on.

Loraine

 

[Brians]

Hi Loraine..

They tried to get our thermal imaging done in June but we managed to get NHBC to agree that it be deferred until now - i.e. do it in Winter when its cold! The NHBC guy has been helpful....but you always get the feeling that there's little he can do if Stewart Milne dig their heels in. He said to us that sometimes the builders sit back and try to get NHBC to pay for any works needed - especially if they can rest on the fact that they (Milne) have built in accordance with "regulation" - even if in our case (yours and mine) regulation isn't sufficient. I've made that point countless times to them - it may be regulation, but we have a room that is unihabitable in Winter unless we leave the heating on. It needs special consideration....so far they just sit back and claim (like you've found) that it achieves its required temperature, with no regard to that fact that it loses heat rapidly.

We have laminate flooring in the room (ours is a Letham) and you can't actually stand on the floor without your feet wuickly becoming frozen. Even workmen who came in to see the room asked if they could discuss the matter in the hall coz it was so cold!

So we'll have the imaging test on Thursday and see what happens. I suspect though we'll get what you got...the room reaches temperature so they don't have to do anything. Then we'll see what NHBC are actually made of.

We'll keep you posted me a PM if you want to!

Brian

 

[loraine1966]

Freezing rooms above garage

Hi Brian

I can see your in the exact same situation. Windows finally done yesterday. NHBC phoned today to enquire whether it was carried out. Advised us that if the temperature outside is -1 degrees then the temp should be able to reach 18 inside. But they are just not getting the fact that it is no problem reaching the temp its maintaining that temp!! Anyway he told us to check the temperature during the cold spells and get back to them if there is a problem.

Would be great to hear how you get on on Thursday and any future developments.

Regards

Loraine

 

[Brians]

Hi Loraine....

Yep, sounds exactly like our situation - even down to the fact that Milne don't appear to understand that the issue is heat retention! NHBC guys seems to understand that. Problem is he's not being drawn on what they (NHBC) can actually do!

The frustrating thing is that two houses up say they have no problems with thier room above the garage....so that suggests there is a fault with our house.....

We'll let you know how thursday goes. Be interesting to know what NHBC would do in your situ if you rang them back and said your still had problems. Have you asked them?

What type of property are you in by the way? We're in a Letham.

Brian

Hi Brian

I can see your in the exact same situation. Windows finally done yesterday. NHBC phoned today to enquire whether it was carried out. Advised us that if the temperature outside is -1 degrees then the temp should be able to reach 18 inside. But they are just not getting the fact that it is no problem reaching the temp its maintaining that temp!! Anyway he told us to check the temperature during the cold spells and get back to them if there is a problem.

Would be great to hear how you get on on Thursday and any future developments.

Regards

Loraine

 

[loraine1966]

Freezing rooms above garage

Hi brian

We're in the Milngavie. Everyone of this type have had problems in my street and the street next to us. Not sure of the rest of the estate. Dont think NHBC are able to do anything if we continue to have a problem. I think they would do some formal temperature checks but SM say that they are meeting the building regulations and therefore are not responsible to do anything else.

A neighbour in our street had major problem with insulation. Big gaps and lots poorly fitted. NHBC had got SM to cut over 20 holes in her walls! They cut 4 in ours and decided from what they saw that the insulation was not an issue.

The site manager said that because the room has 3 outside walls and that the only room it backs onto is a bathroom and obviously above a garage then we will always be colder but I think a difference of 6 degrees is a wee bit excessive! He then went on to suggest that we put up a new ceiling in our garage and insulate inbetween at our own expence. We got a quote and it would cost about £1000!

Let me know how you get on tomorrow with your thermal imaging.

Loraine

 

[Structural Assistance]

Dear Brian & Loraine

It is not often I come across a thread that really gets me thinking. I do like this one.
“Built to Legislation”, how many properties have problems of varying magnitude of problems, that are “Built to Legislation”?

Basically you have to think of your room above your garage in reverse!

Think of it as having 2 roofs. The Garage roof (floor of your cold room, perfect for wine chilling), then the ceiling roof of the cold room.

Has your garage ceiling got additional plasterboard, for fire protection?

Just wondering due to suggestion of a secondary ceiling. Who suggested this, can the existing timbers cope with the additional weight?

Onto U Values, download for free ‘Approved Document L1’. Happy reading.

I am looking forward to the feedback from the thermal imaging. Master stroke having it done in this weather. Heat the house in advance. Turn heat of 30-60 mins before appointment. Goodluck.

 

[They.Saw.Me.Coming]

Update on Frezing Cold Room above Garage

We have a Thortonhall style Home based in Hairmyres, built by SMH.
The house is now 6 years old, so as far as snagging is concerned SMH will not come near it.

We suffered with the expansion tank above the hot water system, rupturing and flooding 60% of the upstairs and caused most of the ceiling in the double garage to collapse.

We noticed two things.

1. The pair of double doors in the room above the double garage did not seal with the bottom frame, only noticed as we had to empty the room due to flood damage, and while I was on my hands and knees mopping up the water I noticed a 1" gap between the doors and the frame.

2. There was no insulation in the roof space between the garage ceiling and the upstairs floor.

We also noticed the sound insulation was very poor we can clearly her peoples conversation as the walk past our house when we are in the room above the double garage.

We contacted SMH who will not even consider a site visit.
We contacted NHBC who sympathised with our cause but even though there is no insulation it is not a fault per say.
we contacted the Local Building Standards, asking for a building certificate, who said they trust all builders to build the houses to the standards as the house they issue the certificate to. they do not check that houses built afterwards are to those same standards.

We have now formed a residents association and involved our local councillers, as the MP`s are not bothered, They have on our behalf contacted SMH and arranged a meeting to discuss the issues with the develpoment I am on, as well as other sites. We will know more by the end of August. Seems strange that SMH would not come to the table to discuss our problems earlier, then we found they are tendering for another development in East Kilbride !!!!!

I have made mistakes in my life, but, nothing compares to buying this new build.

 

[NewHomeExpert]

It is amazing that Stewart Milne managed to attain the HBF five star rating in 2013 and 2012 given what you have said.
They appear to have a problem ensuring garage ceilings are insulated.
In addition, when buyers do find defects, not just snagging but serious issues and omissions, they don't care enough to even come and look at your home!

It is a pity that the NHBC do not start using feedback like you provided tas a basis for increasing the fees they charge to builders who repeatedly badly build new homes and give no or poor service to their customers.