New houses

[tonyw]

Whilst i have put a majority of sensible answers to many existing posts, i have put a couple of joking ones, one point i really want to make, IS DONT LET THE HOUSE TAKE OVER YOUR LIFE, a house is for living in, i am not saying for one minute that anyone should accept shoddy or poor workmanship, but the majority of snagging is NOT LIFE THREATENING, as much as i have read many posts on here, literally slagging all the developers off, and i am sure some of you have had real bad experiances, in my opinion you are far better buying off a large developer than a smaller house builder, you do have more protection.

as for the professional snagger and complainer, you know, the person who buys a property to try and get as much compensation as possible, i think your sorts are low life and basically you should get a life, let alone a job !!!

some very hard statements above.......discuss...... i will gladly answer any questions that are put to me, and you will have to believe me, i am NOT a director of a development company or the like

:laugh: :laugh:

Post edited by: tonyw, at: 2006/03/24 02:23

[Hopeful]

Whilst I agree with tonyw that there are some unscrupulous purchasers out there whose sole purpose is to make money out of the poor developer, it remains a fact that the majority of cases are genuine. Most of the problems would disappear if developers took more responsibility at the build stage (effective quality and standards control) and even more responsibility for true customer service after sale, then there would be little need for websites such as these. Of course we know that the idea of a developer taking responsibility is a pipe dream. Can you imagine the response from John Lewis if the equivalent of a 'chattering roof' or flooded garden or cracked render occurred? Why they would falling over themselves to give 110% customer satisfaction...and why is this? Because there is legislation there to protect the consumer and because there is an ongoing relationship with their customers. How many people buy a new home on a regular basis? There is no incentive for developers to care about their customers at all.
How can any one be accused of trying to make money when it can take 3/4 years of your life to resolve issues of poor construction?

We need to bring this matter to national attention to change what is certainly dishonest. How can anyone be asked to part with hundreds of thousands of pounds and not get what they paid for? If substandard products are considered the norm then purchasers need to be made aware. In any other industry there would be a flood of prosecutions under Trades Descriptions Act. So how can super rich developers be allowed to get away with empty promises of 'superior homes'? Why should complaining customers be treated so badly with bodged repairs and extremely lengthy delays in completing repair works? At least with a small local builder you can appoint your own surveyor and you know that the property will have Building Control crawling all over it at crucial stages. No-one inspected our house not Building Control, not NHBC, not even I suspect the site project manager and certainly not the customer services director. Our whole estate is rife with problems. After 3 years of it I suppose we could be classed as 'professional snaggers and complainers'. Sharing our experiences with the wider world may just help someone else who does not yet know which way to turn for help and advice. It also stirs up the developers to finally take some action as they hate adverse publicity. Which is why some of them police this type of site quite avidly.

[Hopeful]

Whilst I agree with tonyw that there are some unscrupulous purchasers out there whose sole purpose is to make money out of the poor developer, it remains a fact that the majority of cases are genuine. Most of the problems would disappear if developers took more responsibility at the build stage (effective quality and standards control) and even more responsibility for true customer service after sale, then there would be little need for websites such as these. Of course we know that the idea of a developer taking responsibility is a pipe dream. Can you imagine the response from John Lewis if the equivalent of a 'chattering roof' or flooded garden or cracked render occurred? Why they would falling over themselves to give 110% customer satisfaction...and why is this? Because there is legislation there to protect the consumer and because there is an ongoing relationship with their customers. How many people buy a new home on a regular basis? There is no incentive for developers to care about their customers at all.
How can any one be accused of trying to make money when it can take 3/4 years of your life to resolve issues of poor construction?

We need to bring this matter to national attention to change what is certainly dishonest. How can anyone be asked to part with hundreds of thousands of pounds and not get what they paid for? If substandard products are considered the norm then purchasers need to be made aware. In any other industry there would be a flood of prosecutions under Trades Descriptions Act. So how can super rich developers be allowed to get away with empty promises of 'superior homes'? Why should complaining customers be treated so badly with bodged repairs and extremely lengthy delays in completing repair works? At least with a small local builder you can appoint your own surveyor and you know that the property will have Building Control crawling all over it at crucial stages. No-one inspected our house not Building Control, not NHBC, not even I suspect the site project manager and certainly not the customer services director. Our whole estate is rife with problems. After 3 years of it I suppose we could be classed as 'professional snaggers and complainers'. Sharing our experiences with the wider world may just help someone else who does not yet know which way to turn for help and advice. It also stirs up the developers to finally take some action as they hate adverse publicity. Which is why some of them police this type of site quite avidly.

[tonyw]

How many new houses are constructed each year ? its around 80 to 100 thousand, how many 'houses from hell' scenarios are there each year ? the answer.....VERY FEW !! when that many items are produced, there will be some poor ones, i admit that in a perfect world, that should not be the case, but this is a real world where things do go wrong sometimes, and for many varied reasons, and yes sometimes those reasons are quite plainly down to shoddy workmanship, and very likely a dont care attitude, whatever steps are taken, things will never stop going wrong 100% bring in all the legislation you like, inhibit house builders as much as you want, but things will still go wrong at times.

You refer to john Lewis in your text above, do you mean the retail outlet john Lewis ? if that is the case, can you please give me one example of what John Lewis sell that is the equivalant to a 'chattering roof' (whatever that may be ? ) for a start 99% of any sort of retail outlets do not make there items for sale in extremely inclement weathers, in fact in most cases they do not make anything at all, they buy it in and sell it on, so i see your example as a waste of time.

how many people buy a new home on a regular basis, todays answer to that is......LOTS !!! people are being encouraged to put there excess moneys into bricks and mortar as opposed to investing there money into financial affairs, so it cant be such a bad investment as you are making out.

You say that it can take 3 or 4 years to resolve issues, i think you will find that when that happens, it is very much a rare happening, it certainly is not the norm.

You also say above that what developers do is 'dishonest', that is a very strong allegation, and quite honestly i can not agree with that at all, i believe that the vast majority of house buyers do get what they paid for, (try asking them, when they sell the self same propertys on for a vast profit !!)

I also dont believe the vast amount of developers do make empty promises to prospective purchasers, i certainly dont believe they tell them lies either, in the vast majority of cases there is a show home to set the standards and guidelines by, Its ofton or not peoples expectations that let things down, please dont misunderstand me, yes, there will always be the odd occasion that something major goes wrong, and yes. it might be a fault thats the same and has for whatever reason happened in a few propertys, but like it or lump it, thats the real world we live in and whatever happens in the future, you will never stop accident / mistakes / human error happening (FACT)

You also go on to say, that at least with a smaller local builder, you can appoint your own surveyor, and you know the property will have building control crawling all over it at crucial stages, for this comment i thank you, i basically havnt had such a good laugh in ages, My friend, you live in a fantasy world, i have dealt with local authoity building control, and i am sorry, but its nothing like you portray it to be.

Please note the NHBC do have to record all there inspections and copys of these inspections can be freely gained by the purchaser, if they contact the NHBC.

If your estate is 'RIFE' with problems, i wonder how bad the problems truly are ? (who is the developer by the way?) if your estate is one that is being done by one of the bigger developers, and your own problems have run into 3 years, i strongly suggest that there is other reasons and motifs for this being the case, i do not believe that it is just because they cant be bothered to rectify them, i am not saying this is the case, but i once heard of a situation where a couple had bought an apartment, and it had its normal amount of snaggs to be dealt with, there was between 10 to 15 normall small snagging items, these issues took over 9 months to do, the reason why ? the couple would only let the tradesmen in on a saturday from 9am to 10.30am, an hour an a half !!! but when this couple were complaining about how long it all took, they forgot to tell people there allowed times of working !!!!

to conclude this, i have bought quite a few new propertys in the past, and i have had my share of snagging, but i have found that by being reasonable and basically behaving like a normal human being, i have got everything dealt with, i have never once contenplated a compensation claim or anything like it, at the end of the day its a house, somewhere to live, something that in time it will return me a good few quid, it was built by human beings, not robots, it was built in british weathers, not in a stable enviroment.

The moral of my story......i really aint gonna have a heart attack, divorce, kick the cat, nervous breakdown, over some bricks and mortar that will still be standing there alot longer than i will be !!!!!!!!!! (no offence meant to anyone involved in this story or this site come to that)

[puresemen]

Hopeful - I agree completely with your sentiments. Had we bought, for example, a poorly built TV from John Lewis they would have replaced it immediately without arguement. There is currently no legislation to protect house buyers and trying to get snagging finished on a particualry poor plot can become all consuming! If these items are raised and not put right we are legally required to note it in the 'home buyers file' when we come to sell, therefore devaluing our original purchase greatly. We bought a new house so that we wouldn't have any work to do on it as you might expect with an older property - give me a 100 year old hovel to do up anytime!!
tonyw - I bought from the biggest developer - Persimmon - and although their customer care is reasonable, the faults that they are trying to fix are due to no site supervison as Hopeful has experienced.
Are you sure you aren't a Director for a big developer, or maybe the NHBC??!!

[tonyw]

Firstly can i confirm that in no way am i director of any development company, and i am not involved with the NHBC whatsoever.

I have quite obviously only recently found this site, and in many ways its very good, i just find it absolutly ridiculous when people make examples of 'buying a TV to buying a house' for a start a Tv is built in factory conditions, and in the main by robots, a house is constructed by human beings and ofton or not in very inclemant weathers, so sometimes this can and will cause some problems, I totally agree if there is something wrong that has broken a regulation, or is of poor workmanship, then it has to be rectified, but reading through many issues on this site, alot of the problems are purly cosmetic, and easily rectified, i appreciate that everyone expects perfection in this day and age, but what is quality ? i might like the pair of shoes i have bought, you might not, there is no definition of quality, it is in the eye of the beholder, and the way i read some of the complaints on here, basically alot of people have seen a reason to claim for that good old word we have become accustomed to in everyday life today.....COMPENSATION !!!! i absolutly abhore that word, for the simple reason it is ruining our society, dont get me wrong, if there is something thats either life threatening or a major inconvienience, then possibly something should be sorted out, but that all depends on the nature of each individual issue.

my wife overheard a while back a 9year old on a school bus trip, he said to a teacher ' my sister got compensation on a bus trip miss' apparently she slipped over or something, the moral of this is, we have become a 'where theres blame theres a claim society' there is no way back from that, things will only go down hill.

You say that if items are raised by yourselves and not put right, you are legally required to note them them in the homebuyers file and when you come to sell it will have devalued your property, i think not, if you have let it get that far then there is something wrong, at the least a letter from your solicitor wil do the trick, i just feel the way you are saying things is making a mountain out of a molehill.

You say you bought a new house so that you would not have to do any work on it ? the magnolia paint that all developers use is only a nutural base emmulsion for the purchaser to apply there own finish to, i dont know of any developers that supply curtain poles with there propertys, i could go on and on but i wont.

Too manypeople look at a finished show house, which invariably has had thousands spent on it, to give a potential buyer an idea what can be done, ( i accept that most cant go to that sort of exspense)and fixate in there head thats how there house will be, i am afraid in the main, thats not to be the case, a home is for living in for a start, and young kids soon stop a new house being anything like a showhome.

As i step down from my soap box, i suggest you look at the small print on the back of your contract that you have signed.

i do hope you have success in getting what you require finished by the developer, sincerely i do, albeit your thoughts are that i am something to do with the development industry, even if i was, which i am not, it should make no differance anyway, everyone is allowed an opinion, the only thing i do urge you (and many others) is dont let some snagging, however big or small, take over your life, a constant dripping tap to a boggy garden to even your house requiring underpinning, is just not worth the stress you can end up putting yourself (and family) under, as i stated before and will state again, with a bigger developer you are safer than if you are with a smaller developer.

i am sure this debate will go on, i will await some comments, and await to be flamed !!!

Post edited by: tonyw, at: 2006/03/25 07:52

[tonyw]

Firstly can i confirm that in no way am i director of any development company, and i am not involved with the NHBC whatsoever.

I have quite obviously only recently found this site, and in many ways its very good, i just find it absolutly ridiculous when people make examoles of 'buying a TV to buying a house' for a start a Tv is built in factory conditions, and in the main by robots, a house is constructed by human beings and ofton or not in very inclemant weathers, so sometimes this can and will cause some problems, I totally agree if there is something wrong that has broken a regulation, or is of poor workmanship, then it has to be rectified, but reading through many issues on this site, alot of the problems are purly cosmetic, and easily rectified, i appreciate that everyone expects perfection in this day and age, but what is quality ? i might like the pair of shoes i have bought, you might not, there is no definition of quality, it is in the eye of the beholder, and the way i read some of the complaints on here, basically alot of people have seen a reason to claim for that good old word we have become accustomed to in everyday life today.....COMPENSATION !!!! i absolutly abhore that word, for the simple reason it is ruining our society, dont get me wrong, if there is something thats either life threatening or a major inconvienience, then possibly something should be sorted out, but that all depends on the nature of each individual issue.

my wife overheard a while back a 9year old on a school bus trip, he said to a teacher ' my sister got compensation on a bus trip miss' apparently she slipped over or something, the moral of this is, we have become a 'here theres blame theres a claim society' there is no way back from that, things will only go down hill.

You say that if items are raised by yourselves and not put right, you are legally required to note them them in the homebuyers file and when you come to sell it will have devalued your property, i think nort, if you have let it get that far then there is something wrong, at the least a letter from your solicitor wil do the trick, i just feel the way you are saying things is making a mountain out of a molehill.

You say you bought a new house so that you would not have to do any work on it ? the magnolia paint that all developers use is only a nutural base emmulsion for the purchaser to apply there own finish to, i dont know of any developers that supply curtain poles with there propertys, i could go on and on but i wont.

To manypeople look at a finished show house, which invariably has had thousands spent on it, to give a potential buyer an idea what can be done, ( i accept that most cant go to that sort of exspense)and fixate in there head thats how there house will be, i am afraid in the main, thats not to be the case, a home is for living in for a start, and young kids soon stop a new house being anything like a showhome.

As i step down from my soap box, i suggest you look at the small print on the back of your contract that you have signed.

i do hope you have success in getting what you require finished by the developer, sincerely i do, albeit your thoughts are that i am something to do with the development industry, even if i was, which i am not, it should make no differance anyway, everyone is allowed an opinion, the only thing i do urge you (and many others) is dont let some snagging, however big or small, take over your life, a constant dripping tap to a boggy garden to even your house requiring underpinning, is just not worth the stress you can end up putting yourself (and family) under, as i stated before and will state again, with a bigger developer you are safer than if you are with a smaller developer.

i am sure this debate will go on, i will await some comments, and await to be flamed !!!

[Hopeful]

Tonyw
What a load of piffle you do spout!!

Firstly, your romantic ideas that every inch of a house is loving built by human hands is not correct. A great deal of a modern house (stock building which we all mostly buy) is pre-constructed, treated and painted units produced by machines off site.

Secondly how dare you suggest that everyone who has a complaint against a developer is seeking compensation. It is not about that. Its about getting what you have paid for. We did not choose to have a house with a badly constructed roof. Toilets not installed correctly. Kitchens falling to pieces in a matter of months. We are not seeking compensation at all and we have had 3 years of it. For every job done more are created. Yet we remain reasonable and accommodating. And no we do not uneccessarily deny access at any time. But we are entitled to a life outside of the house being repaired. For someone who has such a limited knowledge of the building process you have some very strong opinions.

But who am I to deny you the right to your illinformed ramblings!!

[tonyw]

I think if you look closely, at all my posts, i do not once use the terms 'lovingly' or anything like that, i merely state that houses are built by human beings and not robots, so it is you sir whos talks a load of piffle !!! i do believe you will find todays larger developers call it 'VOLUME' building, not stock housing or whatever you call it