Consumer rights

[archiemcfee]

So what rights do we have with electrics and plumbing if they go wrong 6 months after moving in? I have an extractor fan, that blew up - dripping water, and a radiator that refuses to heat up. Redrow just seem to be ignoring me. Also - different kind of issue - the driveway has still not had it's topcoat of tarmac. It's amazing how hard it is to find answers to this! :dry:

[pmills]

As far as I am aware you are covered by the builder for 2 years (mine is George Wimpey, who are useless!!!!!) for the faults you have described, although the building company will not attempt to fix the problem. They will contact the manufacturers and get their people out to deal with your problems. If the builders are ignoring you go to the sales office (if it's still there, and preferably when it's full) and let them know of your situation.

When you moved in you should have (assuming you were the first in) been given an emergency contact number. Ring it and tell them about your situation. If nothing further happens then consult your local Citizens Advice Center.

I myself am having major problems due to cowboy plumbing. Luckily the company is still on site building more houses in my estate so I can easily grab the site manager and give him a good talking too...

[archiemcfee]

Thanks for the reply. The people 'on site' have actually been first class. Any little niggles were cleared up ASAP. The problems have only arisen since we've been moved on to Head office 'customer care' which happens 30 days after completion. This is Redrow we're talking about by the way. Any ideas where I can find out more about the '2 year' rule? I like to be sure before I start shouting! I'm thinking of writing to the MD directly.

[Tony]

A summary of the cover provided by the NHBC can be found here NHBC

This is the NHBC's phone number 0870 241430

[archiemcfee]

Doesn't appear to me to cover anything. The more I look at it, the more the NHBC looks like one big con. No help to the consumer whatsoever. :angry:

[Colin Jack]

Archiemcfee,

I have said it before and I will say it again...

The NHBC warranty is one of the biggest cons on the go. It is purely designed to keep the builder free from disgruntled customers. Worst of all it is the customer who is paying for this privilege.

It is worse in Scotland because any resolution process carried out by the NHBC is done so by those who have absolutely no authorisation what so ever to make any comment on construction matters. In Scotland the NHBC warranty actually provides less protection than you are obliged to receive as of right under the Building (Scotland) Act. This is why NHBC registered builders will always quote you chapter and verse from the 'NHBC Guidelines', and be quite insistent about it, purely and intentionally, to steer you away from the rights that you already have.

The NHBC Buildmark is a guarantee of poor workmanship.

If the NHBC had any sort of credibility and enforcement out with their own company then why does Zurich and Premiere have similar warranty schemes? Simply because they have discovered how lucrative this warranty scam is.

Will this country ever learn?

No-one has proven me wrong yet!

[Colin Jack]

Archiemcfee,

I hear Redrow have suffered another collapse in Greenock.

http://www.inverclydenow.com/news-detail2.asp?ID=1184

Funnily enough this is not far from last year's Manor Kingdom / Bett Homes / Gladedale collapse at Inverkip. Must be something in the air.

www.abadbett.com

[Scouser]

Colin,


What legal rights in Scotland do you have other than NHBC?

Just Im having some issues with Ogilvie Homes, the standard of finishing is pathetic. Had there customer care person on site today and he was agressive, rude, and continually quoting its within NHBC guidelines. When quizzed what the guidelines were he couldn't answer me.

He continually told me to get NHBC involved however I want to find out what other legal rights I have before going down this root.

[Colin Jack]

Scouser,

I have commented elsewhere on this site about the behaviour of customer care personnel. All I will say is have a witness present, preferably a professional person, when they come round because the lies and abuse will flow as you have seen. I have experienced this on both a personal and professional level and give some comfort in that you are by no means alone. It happens the length and breadth of the country.

The “NHBC Standard� this customer care person was referring to would probably be the “Consistent Approach to Finishes�. Sit down before you read it, it really is quite poor. What everyone needs to know is that these customer care people have no idea what they are talking about. All private contractors that I have dealt with wouldn’t dream of working to that standard but there again none of them are NHBC accredited. When queried about this they just laugh and ask “why would we want to be accredited by the NHBC�. Funnily enough the contractors I have used that are NHBC accredited I have only used them once, and that was more than enough. I am still recovering from the last one which was 3 years ago.

Unfortunately you need to prove the quality of finish is worse than that prescribed in any NHBC document. This will be a significant uphill struggle as it really needs to be noticeably worse before they will even think about doing anything about it. You will get no help from anywhere else either.


Regarding legal rights (please be advised that I am not a qualified legal advisor but I don’t need to be because the legislation is crystal clear, you just need to know where to find it)…

The NHBC warranty is not a legal right no matter which part of the country you are in. It is an insurance policy forced on the customer by the builder purely designed to weaken the customer’s position. This is why you are being shouted at to get them involved. Even worse is that it is the customer who is paying for this warranty plus the builder’s profit margin for imposing such a warranty. So customers are paying the NHBC wage bill and providing the large profit the NHBC make yearly but get no protection – what a scam!

It is completely possible to build a home in this country, subject to legislation, without any NHBC, Zurich or the like warranty. However to legally build and sell the property you do need to comply with the Building Regulations and the legislation behind them, cowboys aside.

So do we actually need such warranties – no we don’t. The amount of money it costs the customer for such a pitiful warranty would more than cover the hiring of a Supervisor or Clerk of Works to look after the construction on the customers behalf. But as we know the builder would never allow this because it would highlight very quickly just how poor their workmanship really is – independent professionals looking after construction works – can’t have that! If we all hired our own Supervisors – what would the NHBC, Zurich et al do then?

I have said it before and I will say it again – the NHBC have no jurisdiction in Scotland and are not permitted to make any comment on construction matters, until such time that NHBC employees names are placed on the List of Verifiers and Certifiers. Any comments made are purely in terms of their own warranty which as many will tell you is useless.

Here is the explanation as to why the NHBC Warranty in Scotland is the biggest con under the sun which only seeks to remove what little legal rights you have. The same may apply to the rest of the UK but I haven’t investigated that yet. The example given below is for a significant snagging item which causes the Completion Certificate to be withheld after you have taken possession of the property:

The Building (Scotland) Act clearly places responsibilities on the Owner before the snagging (or any other) works begin. The builder and the NHBC will give you all sort of assurances that the work will be good and coerce you into instructing the work to go ahead. You take their word for it, because you are not a Construction Professional and don’t know any different, and instruct the work to go ahead. As soon as the first brick is knocked out or the first shovel is put in the ground BANG you have just lost whatever legal standing you may have because YOU instructed the work to go ahead. Case closed – builder walks away. The Building (Scotland) Act clearly places responsibilities on the Owner before the snagging works begin. It is your responsibility to check that the proposed works will be good and at least comply, where applicable, with the minimum standards defined in the Building (Scotland) Act and its associated Regulations and Standards.

No-one from the NHBC, my housebuilder or their city law firm has proven me wrong yet. But plenty Local Authority Building Standards Officers, independent Consulting Engineers and Scottish Executive Officers have confirmed, one of them officially in writing, that this indeed the case. YOU INSTRUCT THE WORKS TO GO AHEAD WITHOUT CHECKING – ON YOUR OWN HEAD BE IT.

Please be very careful if you are going to take this stance and go down this route, as I have. The defects involved need to be quite serious which may endanger the property. Do not use this route for decorating defects, nail pops and the like, it needs to be something that breaches the Building Regulations. You must also employ suitable professionals which will cost because housebuilders have the finance to employ more professionals than you who will stop at nothing to delay your case, they will openly lie to you, twist and distort any comments made or facts proven, accuse you of everything imaginable, blame you for everything imaginable and send you off on tangents purely to delay and confuse you and anything else you can think of to avoid the simple truth – the house you bought from them is a pile of sh*te. I have the documentation to prove this.

However, in my case, there is another reason why I have gone down this route.


Choose your advisors, legal or otherwise, carefully because surprisingly enough very few that I spoke to actually knew the ins and outs of the Building (Scotland) Act and were surprised to find out how useless the NHBC warranty really is.

Again be very careful when deciding to go down this route. Please seek proper advice first.