Creaky floors

[suemac40]

Hi

I would be extremely grateful for any advice, or for replies from others who have had similar problems in a new build property. (I have read previous posts so realise that it is a fairly common problem, and would like to know how others have fared in their attempts to have problem rectified)

We bought a duplex apartment in Feb 2007, with bedrooms downstairs (didn't foresee that there would be any issue with noise transferance from lounge upstairs into bedroom in this day and age!.... how naive!). We did notice that there was some significantly creaky areas of floor but presumed that this would be rectified prior to our moving in. However, as we ended up exchanging and completing simultaneously, and the developer had refused to attend to any snags until we exchanged, there was no time to get snags done.

Since moving in, the floor (chipboard) has had numerous screws added, (didn't help), then the majority of the floor was replaced which did help with the creaks upstairs but there is a residual cracking sound that can be heard whenever there is even the slightest footstep upstairs. We are both shift workers so this has made life difficult as if one of us is sleeping, the other has to virtually sit motionless upstairs!

Additionally, the footfall noise is quite significant, although we do not yet have our final floor finish down (the properties were all sold like that) because we have been waiting to get the creaking issue sorted first. I am informed that footfall noise will lessen significantly once the final floor is down. However, I am not at all confident that the cracking noise will disappear at the same time, so am reluctant to complete the floor until the developers have investigated further. I have been told by one manager that our floor is 'as good as it will ever be'.... but am not satisfied with this. Should I now get Zurich invloved (NHBC are not the insurers with this build).

Finally, we weren't happy with the airborn noise level between upstairs and bedroom either so paid for extra mineral wool which the carpenters added when they replaced the floor.

Would it be worth my getting sound testing done prior to contacting Zurich?

We have really had enough of living with a dusty chipboard floor for 8 months, so any advice/comments/suggestions will be very welcome.

Thanks

Sue

[Bugbait]

Not sure what the sound standards (ambient and impact) are like for Zurich but NHBC's are ridiculous. Impact can be up to 64dB (this is loud). Basically the bar is set so high it's not even worth doing a sound test IMO. Might be best to check it out first to see if it's worth your time and expense. I was quoted £600+ for a sound test by independant consultants.

Is the 'cracking' noise coming from the floor or the frames? I ask because the NHBC moron tried to tell us it was our floors but it's the frames. Unfortunately, once we proved him wrong (took about 7-8 months) he stated that it's normal for wooden frames to flex, except the noise is coming from the non-structural metal frame attached but that's another story.

If you can, try to get the opinion of an independant engineer or good surveyor.

Best of luck trying to get it sorted but I wouldn't rely on the builder or Zurich to do anything, unless they're world's better than NHBC, which isn't hard

[suemac40]

Thanks for the reply.

I think the cracking noise is coming from the joists as it can't be heard when walking around on the floor, only in the room underneath. As for the impact noise, I've no idea what level of db it reaches, but it is loud! Did you have any luck finally getting your noise resolved?

Unfortunately, soon after my posting the developers went under administration and have now ceased trading.

Had a scarey moment when I realised we had never received the full Insurance Certificate (ie showing that the property had passed the final inspection), and on contacting Zurich, was told that they couldn't release it, the property had no cover, and to refer back to the builder or my legal rep!

Thankfully, after much chasing, calls, etc, the Certificate is here.... but a warning to other homebuyers, make sure your solicitor has been very thorough, and check everything yourself! (We had a Building Period Certificate but no policy booklet so didn't realise that that certificate was not full cover).

We are in the process of putting a claim in to Zurich, not just for the floor, but other things that have still not been rectified, such as the spot lights continually falling out of the ceilings. They have told me to just put the claim in and they will advise whether we need to get a structural engineer's report first. But knowing that insurance companies are notorious for trying to avoid paying out, I'm not confident at this stage.

[Bugbait]

Our noise is also coming from the joists, more accurately the non-structural metal frame attached to the structural, timber frame.

Is your cracking metallic, almost like metal grinding against itself? Timber tends to be a 'softer' pitch. Sorry, kind of difficult to describe

Does it sound like it's coming from the ceiling or also the corners and walls? Noise from squeaking floors (can be due to lack of screws, glue, etc.) doesn't tend to travel down the walls, wheres problems with the joists will.

Sadly, NHBC deemed the framework and floors have been constructed to standard. That might be true but that doesn't change the fact it's a low standard. Apparently all timber structures squeak and most are worse than ours. That would be extremely sad if true!

I hope you get it all sorted with Zurich. The finishing such as the lights shouldn't be a problem but the squeaking might be an issue. Hard to tell but with the testimonies on this and other forums it's not promising

[Chuck Sidfrum]

British Gypsum have an opinion on ceiling plaster board cracking sounds when connected to floor joists, directly or with resilient bars.

They suggest strengthening the floors. On their website is information from 2005 if I remember, and our neighbour had a similar report from them in 2007. 80% of our estate is still due floor strengthening repairs. Builder tried to blame British Gypsum, the plaster, the joist company, etc etc. Ultimately it was builder chosing lowest specification (SI 1.06) and poor storage, and poorly fitting.

NHBC needed to be pushed to agree and act correctly on the matter - but not a fraction of the effort needed to move the builder along in admitting/investigation of floor issues; noisy & bouncy. Turned out NHBC employes cooler, to handle relationship between claims handler/investigator and the builder - which got very heated at times.

The cracking sound heard from below was the early sign of issues, although it's very faint noise to start with, they over 3-18 months, during drying out and for rooms with most foot traffic, noise develops, to a point where everyone notices. Just because the small box room doesn't have the noise doesn't mean the fault isn't present, it's usually was found to be due to little foot traffic, or a 3m span (as problem mostly impacts max spans 4m).