Persimmon Homes Noisy Floors

Nick · 29th March 2005, 11:27

I would really appreciate advice on whether I have a problem. When the kids are playing upstairs and/or adults walking around there is a lot of noise from the floor structure that is very audible from the down stairs rooms. (This design characteristic seems to be common to all new build houses that I have been in).
In all the bedrooms modest footfall/walking causes significant vibration to other parts of the bedroom structure.
Construction on the house was completed October/November 2004. We have occupied house since December 2004..

Tony · 30th March 2005, 18:28

It is difficult to say without experiencing the noise and the vibrations. However, new houses often use I-beams for joists these are light and cheaper than solid wood. The vertical section is a piece of fibreboard and the bottom and top of the "I" is real wood. This is actually very strong, but it has to be stored carefully and installed according to the manufacturer's guidelines. If it gets wet there can be problems, holes for pipes and cables can weaken the structure too.

Regarding the flooring, this is often installed using nail guns and these do come loose - this could be part of the problem. Nailing these loose boards down, or ideally screwing them down will solve this problem, reduce movement and noise. Bodgers might blow talk between the boards act as a lubricant and reduce noise too, but this will only last for a while.

Secondly, trades will holes in the floors to access pipework and cables, they may not adequately repair these holes.

Ask the developer what they think. They may try to fob you off by saying that kids are not supposed to jump around, but most developers will fix this kind of problem, especially as you have only been in a few months.

Hope this helps

Nick · 31st March 2005, 14:45

Tony,
Thanks for your comments. I will try to look at adjacent houses under construction to try and see the exact construction of the floors. I will also ask the Site manger to have a look/listen.
Two of the upstairs bedrooms are definitely much noisier with the noise being akin to loose boards.
It may be that the large sheets of fibre board used for floors have not been secured to all cross beams. Are there any building regs/ standards that specify the degree of fixing between boards and beams?

Tony · 31st March 2005, 17:45

You can access Zurich's manual online, see http://www.zurich.co.uk/buildingguarantee/index.html

Hope that helps,

Tony

Tex · 5th April 2005, 22:42

, Hi Nick,
I can hazard a guess here to what noise you're hearing when there's other's walking around the first floor.
You're either hearing the flooring making contact on the joist's when walked upon, or a amplified effect from the void between the ceiling and upstair's floor!
Your flooring may have been laid in a floating system and the partition walls are contructed upon them, in which case, a screw gun and screw's will solve. This isn't a problem, more of a pain to rectify as you have to lift carpet's etc.
Or, it could be that the void is amplifying the movement of the joists.
You stated that it vibrates around the bedroom, i guess you can feel and see objects move when your in motion. So with this in mind i guess it's the latter.
Nothing you can do about this, nor will anybody listen. It's part of the save money on materials problem! They've used joist's that just hit the specification for the job with no insulation in between your ceiling void!
If this is the case, you'll have to learn to live with noise!
Hope i've helped.

Nick · 8th April 2005, 16:24

Hi Tex,

Thanks for the comments. Is it worth while lifting the carpet/underlay to have a look? Would putting more nails/screws through floor to joists help? The builder is very unlikely to rebuild these noisy floors so what can I do to help myself?

It is also very unlikely that my kids will stop jumping around.

Tex · 8th April 2005, 16:37

Hi Nick,
it could solve the problem and it's certainly worth a try!
Lift the carpet & underlay, You must establish the directions of the joist, usually front to back direction, you must also locate each individual joist, pipes or cable's that could be affected!
Chalk line the joist centre's from wall to wall, this will act as your guide.
A good powerful screwgun is recommended or a cable drill with screw capability.
I would personally use 30mm drywall screw's. Any wickes store etc should have them in stock.
Right, with preperation done, fix the screws with centre's of 400mm apart the whole lengh of the chalk line, and torque down until screw head is sunk flush to the floor!
Relay underlay/carpets!
WHAT OUT FOR PIPES & ELECTRIC CABLE'S!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nick · 11th April 2005, 10:44

Hi Tex,

Finally got a chance to look at some of the other houses under construction.

Persimmon have used I-beam joists. There are 3 sizes used small(6cm) , medium(8cm) and large(10cm) by aaprox 20cm height for each joistat approx. 60 cm centres. Floor boards are laid at 90 degrees to joists.

Will follow your fixing advice but need to check with builder so I do not affect NHBC rights ( as small as they may be)

Tony · 11th April 2005, 18:41

Hi Nick,

Have you given up trying to get Persimmon Homes to do this for you?

Tony

5th May 2005, 14:12

Tony,

Ive lived in my persimmon home for just over 4 moths now and had my bedroom floor adjusted 3 times, but still there is very loud noises which can be heard in the lounge whn we walk on it, Persimmon say to leave it a further 6 months until the house has properly settled down and then call them back again to screw down. Its a pain in the butt having to listen to the ceiling / floors making a creaking noise and also when we open the lounge door it mmakes the bedroom floor/lounge ceiling creak too.

thanks