We have had a running query with Persimmon for over 18 months that all of the radiators in our Richmond were too small. They kept responding that everything ‘was to spec’ and leaving it to us to have to chase the query up again – I wish I had a pound for each time Persimmon have closed this job down on their system.
Our query has been based on the points:
1. Question of radiator sizes being adequate arose during our very first Newbuild snagging session.
2. The house never warms up properly (Renelec have checked the boiler & stat, and even they thought the radiators were too small for the rooms).
3. To achieve a design room temperature of 21 degrees in the lounge, we have to turn the thermostat up to 30 degrees.
4. We fitted heated towel rails in the main bathroom and En-Suite, which instantly transformed these rooms into the warmest in the house – with a definite temperature drop to the next room.
After much reminding, Persimmon handed us the complete radiator specification for our property which had been done for them by a company called Domestic Heating Design, from Kettering. The spec sheet also applies to the other Richmonds on Katherine Park on plots 37, 82, 116, and 120. The document shows for each room:
- Heating output required in Watts,
- Radiator dimensions,
- Radiator type - DeLonghi Compact range throughout.
The spec also identifies between type ‘K’ for single skin radiators, and type ‘KK’ for double skin).
Armed with these specifications, a check direct with a DeLonghi agent has shown very clearly that all of the radiators, not just the master bedroom, are all undersize by an average of 26%, and will never be able to meet Persimmon’s own specifications for heat output.
We have spoken to an independent heating engineer, and have measured all of the rooms ourselves to calculate to heating requirement (there’s a formula that takes in temperature differentials either side of each wall, room type and use, window/glazing sizes, etc – very detailed) and we came up with slightly different heating output requirements for each room, but still well above the maximum output of the supplied radiators.
To fix this – and by that I mean to fit radiators that meet the minimum heating output for each room – is to increase the single (K) skin radiators to double (KK) radiators; this would be a bolt on solution for all but 3 of the rooms, where a physically longer radiator would call for changes to the feed pipes positions in the walls.
The DeLonghi agent, also a heating engineer, has stated that in this situation our boiler (a more than adequate 60KW Glow-Worm unit) will be running far from peak efficiency and we will likely have large heating bills for a house that never feels as if it actually warms through properly. This sums up our actual situation and he said that without any prompting!
Again, we have the same problem. We live in a Berkeley type house with 'dual zone' heating and find that our heating does not come on at all upstairs! The thermostat is located on the airing cupboard wall and always reads about 5-6 degrees centigrade higher than the rooms. Unless we turn it up to about 28 the heating doesn't come on. Thankfully, we have underfloor heating in our bathrooms! Even if we can get the heating to come on upstairs, the rooms are still cold. My son's room averages 17 degrees, so we're all sleeping in one bedroom at the moment. Quite mad for a brand new house! We've asked Persimmon for the heating schematics so we can get British Gas to do a report for us. Will let you know...
I can only speak for the 5 Richmond houses in our part of Katherine Park Phase 1, but the rads are confirmed as undersize by DeLonghi and an independant heating engineer. The physical size and usage of the rooms have also been worked out for heating requirements and even that way the Persimmon fitted rads come up short (undersized).
That doesn't mean to say though, that the same thing has not happened to other types of houses - look forwards to hearing how you get on. Our date with NHBC, etc, is 4 March, and ater that we will be escalating our very black and white case to the local building standards people, etc, and will be seeking publicity far wider than this single website - watch this space.......:angry:
Thank you for the information about the 'mini-me' style heating that Persimmon have installed into the Richmond-style houses on Phase 1. As a fellow Richmond home owner we have noticed the rather inadequate heating. However, as we are also heavily involved on a number of other issues with Persimmon :sick: the heating has been put on the back burner - forgive the pun !!
But I will be using the detail you have so kindly provided to highlight the heating deficiency when I next contact the NHBC.....
We have all paid big money for our homes and they expect us to gladly receive their poor workmanship and their equally bad Customer Service (oximoron or wot ?) and to just roll-over and accept it ..... I don't think so !!!!! :angry:
Keep talking the talk and spreading the word...
:cheer:
Persimmon have refused to hand over the schematics for our heating, saying 'it's not company policy'. Nevertheless, we will pursue a survey from an independent company to ascertain whether or not our radiators are sufficient.
It seems bizarre to us, that both the Study and the Dining Room have double radiators, whilst the bedrooms, which are 2-3 times bigger, have a small, single radiator in them. Presumably, they're counting on heat rising, or us plebs getting out the hot water bottles :silly:
Hi, has the house been properly insalated? as this is a common problem on new Homes, as the work is carried out by sub contractor's on 'price work', and ipersimmon dont actualy employ any tradesmen only accountants and so called management teams,on you site would have been,Agent,F/lift driver,& labourer,it's all about money i'm afraid
Hi, regarding insulation, I'm not sure! Don't know if we have cavity wall insulation, but we do have roof insulation. I've booked British Gas to come out tomorrow and assess the situation. We're all sleeping in one bedroom, as we can't get my son's room hotter than 17 degrees in this cold weather, despite the upstairs thermostat trying to tell us it's really 24 up there! Seems ridiculous and very Victorian! Will let you know what British Gas say...
You need to keep pushing on this as you are correct in that it is not right.
We had a similar problem but only in one bedroom. I could wander around my home in shorts and t-shirt when it was sub zero outside yet as soon as I entered my sons bedroom it was freezing.
So first we checked the double glazing was fitted right and had it resealed. Still cold.
Then we noticed on day that the trickle vents let draughts through so they were refitted. Still cold.
We have just had the single skin radiator replaced with a double and suddenly the rooms is toasty and warm even tonight when it is -6 outside.
To be fair, our builder never argued about this and worked with us through all the above options to sort it out but the difference it makes is huge.
The crazy thing is that radiators are not that expensive (especially when bought trade) so you have to question if this is just penny pinching gone too far.
Hi, well British Gas came yesterday and have confirmed what we thought, one of our main problems is the location of the upstairs roomstat on the airing cupboard wall. Dumb we know, and obviously it gets hotter than the hallway cos of where it is, but when we asked Persimmon they just said 'built to plan, that's the way it is!'. So, have scanned the British Gas report and sent it to them and asked to have the thermostat moved as a matter of some urgency. Secondly, he did measure two of the rooms and work out the KW needed from radiators to heat them, but without the heating schematics from Persimmon, could not confirm if the radiator sizes were correct. He said they have no reason to withhold the schematics from us, as it's the design for our own house! He did comment all the radiators look a bit undersized, but that he wasn't surprised as Persimmon have the worst reputation in the industry for heating!!! He also said, the two zone thermostats should be the 7 day programmable ones, so we have also asked Persimmon about this. So, I emailed all this to Persimmon yesterday and now wait to see what response they come up with this time. Everything takes such an age.................. and in the meantime, we're still all sleeping in one bedroom with hot water bottles - very Victorian!!!
Our independant has also confirmed the undersized radiators throughout our Richmond - we are now ready for the NHBC visit on Tuesday 4th March. Persimmon still haven't written to NHBC so we don't know which individual they will send (if any perhaps).
KatherineParkVictim2 -Persimmon can't withold that information, company policy or not. Doesn't the Freedom of Information Act apply to them then? Might be worth another push on that - we were given freely the 'Radiator Schedule' which came originally from Domestic heating Design Ltd, Kettering - via Persimmon Customer Care; suggest you remind them that they have already given such details to a customer (you saw it on the web, didn't you!?!) unless they know there's something to hide!
We will be reporting back after the NHBC visit on Tuesday where we are looking at the watery garage walls, and the undersized radiators (see our earlier posts). Cheers!!!
B)
New Homes News 
Persimmon Fit Undersized Radiators 
Thank you for the information about the 'mini-me' style heating that Persimmon have installed into the Richmond-style houses on Phase 1. As a fellow Richmond home owner we have noticed the rather inadequate heating. However, as we are also heavily involved on a number of other issues with Persimmon :sick: the heating has been put on the back burner - forgive the pun 
!!
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