Wooden Windows

Persimmon Nightmare · 2nd November 2006, 17:50

Im after some advice regarding the 'eco-friendly' wooden windows put into our new Persimmon House.

We have experienced no end of problems since moving in in March 06. The french doors on the middle floor leak each time it rains as there is an inch gap between the bottom of the door and the floor. 80% of the windows are draughty, incorrectly fitted, the wood has split and the paint/varnish has flaked off.

Persimmon's head of customer care visited us this week, and even after he was told by his own staff that the French Doors were, quote, 'shocking', his first words on entering the house were 'Im not going to replace any doors or windows'.

He then continued to inform my husband that 'wood windows are meant to let in draughts, thats the way they're made'. He also then told us that 'the wood fits the hole, so whats the problem' He had no intention of replacing the poor doors and windows and so we have approached the NHBC; although Ive been told that they are 'in the pockets' of the builders.

Other people on the estate have completely different wooden windows which appear to be much better than ours.

Has anyone any advice for me on how to get these windows sorted, or whether I have a guarantee with the Manufacturer that I can act upon.

Any advice would be most appreciated.

Tony · 2nd November 2006, 23:57

The windows are obviously not right and you are having the wool pulled over your eyes. You need an independent report, either from a snagging company, a company that fits wooden windows or the NHBC.

The second option is probably the cheapest, but you should be able to get your money back. Tell the customer care manager what you are going to do and he may change his mind.

You should ask the customer care manager what his background is i.e. does he actually know what he is talking about (expect him to get defensive).

If this were the opinion of the construction director it would have more credibility as often they have often worked their way up from the trades and know what they are talking about. However, they can also be compromised by the pressure to minimise snagging costs.

I hope this helps

Tony

Persimmon Nightmare · 3rd November 2006, 10:03

Tony,

Thank you for your reply.

We have comissioned an independant Surveyor's report. We have been in touch with the NHBC and they have given 10 days for Persimmon to respond. However we have heard from other people in the area that the NHBC are in league with the big builders.

I just cant believe the attitude of [Ed. name removed] the Head of Customer Services.

Tony · 6th November 2006, 18:13

It sounds like you have everything in hand.

With regards to the NHBC (in a nutshell) the housebuilders are their customers, so their relationship with your housebuilder is much more important and valuable that their relationship with you. Their aim is to make profit! If their standards are too high the builders will go elsewhere for their warranties.

Tony

Persimmon Nightmare · 6th November 2006, 18:23

Hi Tony,

I contacted Persimmon again last week to ask what the warranty was on the windows. They told me the following.....

'Wooden windows and furniture are of course covered for the initial two-year period ( as long as frames maintained by the homeowner) The glass and frames, again may be covered by the individual manufacturer but this warranty would not be enforced by ourselves the home owner would need to contact the manufacturer direct after the two-year period has ceased'

So I asked Persimmon about the manufacturer, and was told......

'I believe your windows to be installed by STP Windows but they have now ceased manufacturing windows'

Great!!!!!

Tony · 6th November 2006, 18:27

I suppose that makes it even more important to get them sorted now while the developer/NHBC are still liable to deal with any defects.

Good luck

Tony

Persimmon Nightmare · 6th November 2006, 19:13

Indeed!

Thanks for your help and advice Tony, much appreciated.

Regards

Lea

Colin Jack · 7th November 2006, 13:13

Lea,

Beware the lies. I was told by Bett Homes Customer Care that the company who fitted my windows (Glasstec) had gone out of business. Imagine my surprise when a leaflet came through my door from Glasstec and even more surprising when a Glasstec van passed in front of me on the way to work. I wonder if Glasstec themselves knew that they had gone out of business. Odd!!!

The builder has your money now - you are nothing more than sh*te on their shoes. They really don't care if you have problems with your windows or anything else for that matter.

I would agree wholeheartedly with Tony and have said this before in a few posts on this site. It was the NHBC Engineering Manager Simon Barrett who said to my face (these are direct quotes) 'After all the NHBC are just the builder's insurer.' and 'If the NHBC set their standards too high then builders will just get their insurance elsewhere'.

In England I believe the NHBC does have some sort of Building Control function but in Scotland the NHBC have absolutely no jurisdiction whatsoever and merely provide a smokescreen which hides these builders utter incompetence. It is a complete con. The owner pays for an insurance policy which actively removes what little legal rights they have to begin with.

NHBC accreditation guarantees shoddy workmanship, vile customer care and a complete disregard for the Building Regulations. I would be very grateful if someone could prove me wrong but I wonâ€™t hold my breath.

Persimmon Nightmare · 7th November 2006, 13:44

Hi Colin,

Thanks for the advice. Sorry to hear you had problems with your windows too. Did you ever get it resolved?

Ive found out that although the window company dont appear to be in business any longer, their parent company certainly is (and goes by a similar name).

Persimmon told me this morning that 'The windows and French doors provided to your property are not defective; they simply require adjustment and the addition of some draught excluder to bring them in line with the standards'.

They are shocking, and draught excluder is not going to resolve the problem. Ive taken some photos....

http://www.leaspersimmon.zoomshare.c...20-%20Problems

I cant believe they can get away with being so slap-dash in their attitude, and backed by the NHBC.

There ought to be an independant body outside of the NHBC/Builders who you can complain to.

:angry: